Pigs in Space!!!!!!!!!


Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:41 pm    Post subject: Pigs in Space!!!!!!!!!

Is a neat little article i stumbled upon.

hopefully the link stays active long enough for most people here to read it.

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Pigs in Space!!!!!!!!!

It got on Slashdot as well.

Reading through the discussion below is quite interesting, too.

I do, however, have a qualm with one of the sentences used in the Wired article.

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:32 am    Post subject:

I have a much bigger qualm, which is the use of the term “cryogenic suspension” when there is nothing cryogenic about this procedure. These kind of experiments have been done for decades, even in humans, although not specifically for exsanguinating trauma. If this work makes it into human clinical practice as a trauma treatment, that will be something new, but it’s still not cryonics!

Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:18 pm    Post subject:

I have to agree with both of you on your points. but i still beleive the overall effect of more articles like this showing up in the media ,will be positive in the end. It gets people thinking in the right direction, even though it may appear to be misguided.

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:06 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, yeah, no doubt you are right. It’s just irritating to see new claims for the invention of the wheel made over and over again.

Alcor Patient Capacity


Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:44 pm    Post subject: Alcor Patient Capacity

Currently Alcor has around 70 crypreserved patients and about over 700 members. How does Alcor plan to make storage accommodations for all those patients. I imagine that would be alot dewers needing more employees to maintain nitrogen levels. In essence what is Alcor’s capacity and how do they plan do expand this amount.


Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject:

Actually Alcor is in the process of increasing the space for the patient (dewers) care bay. I have seen it under construction for myself and I have to say its pretty large. They have taken over more of the spaces they were renting out of the building they own. I would guess that its at least 3 times bigger than the old patient care bay.

They will probably be posting the numbers after they finish construction on the new bay. I am sure they have made calculations of how many dewers they can fit in the bay. My guess would be the new bay would be able to hold any new cyroperservation members we get for at least 5-10 years or more.

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:16 pm    Post subject:

James is right, the new patient bay will at least triple our current capacity.

As for the general way in which we expand, it is done incrementally. New patient dewars are ordered in advance of need, always keep at least one ahead for backup purposes. The lead time can be months on an order. but there is no need to have space available for all 700+ members, since only a small fraction will need space in a given year.

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: 700 future cases

The challenge is not storage capacity. Storing a cryopreserved person should be a relatively undemanding task. The challenge is to do standby-transport-perfusion procedures for those 700 (approx) Alcor members. Of course a lot of people are likely to die in ways that render a standby unnecessary or impossible, but even 250 future standby-transport procedures will be an immense logistical challenge, especially since the burnout rate among standby personnel has been very high, historically. I reached the conclusion 10 years ago that cryonics will have to get through an interim period where the case load will be too great for the current system, but not big enough to achieve economies of scale. I think we are about to enter that period. It is not an impossible challenge, but it is a challenge.

Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: 700 future cases

I look forward to the day when Alcor has multiple full time response teams ready that are paid competitive wages.

The “Lost”


Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:39 pm    Post subject: The “Lost”

I don’t have much time to read these days, much to my dismay; but I’ve made an effort to occasionally insert other cryonics organizations’ publications into my rotation. (An occupational hazard….)

Recently, I spotted a Cryonics Insistute statistic that I admire. In their membership stats, they mark the “lost”. The count is one on this new stat, and the story is explained in their Jan/Feb 2005 issue . Reading this was painful and reminiscent. If I had to count the number of cases that I’ve encountered in this past year that I’d consider lost, there are two that spring immediately to mind. One of them resembled Ben’s narrative. The other was sadder still.

How do you tell someone with whom you spoke a year ago, whose child (or other loved one) died weeks ago, that you cannot help them? How do you deal with a hostile or divided family that has control over a human’s remains? Sometimes, I sent them to Ben and his company, but I have no idea if these efforts were ever successful. Sometimes, all I can do is give up, if for no other reason than to protect the other patients in my care. Sometimes you have to give up, because probably no one should accept this case. The uncertainty is something that wounds.

Giving up is not something that comes easily to me. I’m a cryonicist, for goodness sake. I don’t give up on nothin’, not even death. In my years of trying to save individual human lives, I’ve actually learned a hard lesson that I’m not sure I like. I love Ben’s (and CI’s) attempt to quantify the number of people who were on the verge of being saved, but who just didn’t quite make it.

There are those who might argue that this category includes most of the people on the planet, and the numbers certainly bear them out because 100,000 people a day are dying from aging alone. In many ways, I don’t count those, because I don’t personally speak to them or their families. Of those with whom I communicate, an average of zero humans are preserved by cryonics on a daily basis by choice. Should we still find comfort in the odd “dead” duck? I find I do.

It’s enough for me that simple exposure to cryonics encourages me, that the occasional dark cloud is diverted, and that the rarer bird is saved. And conservation of any kind is not for the timid. Cryonics is not for the timid. I find myself more crushed by the people who choose this experiment, but for whom the industry fails, than those who never gave it a second thought.

The philosophy of cryonics is life; and it’s not just life, but chosen.

Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:24 am    Post subject: Thanks

Thank you for this Tanya.

Please keep up your hard work.

Forum layout


Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:37 pm    Post subject: Forum layout

James, it’s a pain to have to jump in and out of each discussion category to see what’s new. This is only going to become more of a problem as the Forum gets more active. Any chance of changing the Forum format to display all message from all categories simulateously on one page in posting time order like

does? They still have separate category stamps on messages, but all current messages can be seen at once.

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:52 pm    Post subject:

I do not know if this is exactly what you are looking for, but this might help.

There is a link in the upper right corner of the main forum page titled “View posts since last visit.” I have tested it and it appears to fill your need. Please try it and tell me if its not what you are looking for. Here is a link to it:

Also they have another option below it titled “View unanswered posts.”

Posted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:44 pm    Post subject:

I was going to look at that format again, but the link isn’t generating the new format properly anymore.

James, the forums are becoming more difficult to scan with every new topic that appears. Can you make the topics within each forum appear in the order of the date of the last post? That way to older topics will eventually disappear toward the bottom. This Ideas & Suggestion forum seemed to be ordered that way today, but the other forums aren’t. Thanks for looking into it.

Posted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 4:25 pm    Post subject:

I am sure the forum is designed to have the newest posts at the top and the older posts at the bottom. Its not by original post date, but by newest reply in each post. I checked all the forums and they are all using this format. I do not even think I have an option to change it.

Please contact me if you have any problems or find its not function as it should.

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:58 pm    Post subject:

When I look at the topic list in the General Discussion area

the date ordering looks completely random.

Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:41 am    Post subject:

I think I know what is happening. I checked it as well and its working properly, I think what you are seeing is the “annoucements and stickys” showing up first in the list. They are promoted over all other posts regardless of date.

If you ignore them and just look at the normal post dates you will see that the dates are in order from newest to oldest.

Liquid nitrogen generators


Any way of plumbing one of these devices into the dewars in an automated fashion?

Theoretically this would drastically reduce maintanence costs.

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:02 am    Post subject:

Everytime these kind of schemes have been looked at, the cost is actually greater than bulk-purchased LN2.

Sometimes I think that in house LN2 production powered by solar generators would be a neat setup, but that’s more for publicity than actual costs savings. Even then the PR factor could backfire. People might think that the future of cryonics depended on a certain number of hours of sunlight per year!

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Liquid nitrogen generators

Don’t be so sure of that.

The “economy” version of the plant you link to is at about our dewar use (~120l/day). It produces this using 312 kw/hrs of electricity. Electric costs at $.08 per kw/hr, gives us about $0.21 per liter just for the electricity. We currently pay about $0.19 per liter of LN2.

Note that this is just for the electricity. It would not count the capital costs of the plant, its maintanence, the staff time for operating it, and the cost of 400 liter/hr of 15C cooling water (not insignificant in Arizona!).

The fact is, at our size, it just doesn’t make economic sense. That said, there are significant economies of scale to nitrogen production. There may be a point in our growth where it does make sense. And economics aren’t the only reason to do this. But, on the other hand, as we use larger quantities, our supplier prices will continue to drop. IIRC, the bottom price is around 4 or 5 cents a liter. It will be very hard to beat that.

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:24 am    Post subject:

Perhaps I was a bit too keen there

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 11:06 pm    Post subject:

It was a interesting idea, Keep them coming.

Automated Remote Neuros Cryopreservation & Vitrification


The most serious draw-back to current cryonics protocol is likelihood of potentially significant time-lag between cardiac arrest and cryonic intervention that results in warm ischemia that COULD signify irreparable neural cell damage or loss. Though, given lack of any means of verification of revivability (information-theroetic criterion of death), we cannot know just how much neuron death is negligible, it’s only reasonable I think that we strive towards the ideal. First I’m going to state a hypothetical ideal-case scenario – even more so than as presently described by Alcor’s web site since their situation is realistic by presently available technology and relatively orthodox procedure. Then, I’m going to propose a means to realizing that (I think) “better” ideal.

What if we were able to receive all the treatment necessary for neuros cryopreservation and vitrification immediately pending heart failure, without the need for immediate presence of cryonics paramedical staff, and the assurance of prompt notification of any and all relevant authorities exactly then, rather than lending opportunity for loss of time and subsequent damage.

Obviously, this is an even better scenario than that commonly described, since now you needn’t be bed-ridden and all people set on stand-by while you wait. Now, if this were to come true, you could be completely oblivious to your coming near doom and still be safe(er). So here’s how I propose it may be done:

Firstly, implant an ECG <look it up in Wikipedia.org if you don’t know what this is> (detects heart behavior and can sense cardiac arrest); thankfully, these are a part of the internal defibrillators you can have installed without open-chest surgery, so it would not be unreasonable to do given you could prevent most heart attacks to begin with and also have means to the monitoring of your cardiovascular system’s stability.

I propose that also, hopefully before there is significant risk of heart disease and the person is healthy, the person go into surgery to implant a special *switch valve* ajoining the major blood vessel leading into and out of the person’s brain by way of the neck. While the person is healthy it would do nothing but act as an open bridge for blood to flow through, but once the ECG senses that the heart has failed, and the critical time period has passed in which resuscitation has failed and the brain must receive oxygenation for fear of the beginning of cell death, the switch is flipped, so to speak. Wired or wireless transmission would be signaled from the ECG device to the switch valve telling it to activate, and a small power device would turn the valve so that instead of the brain’s receiving blood input from, or output to the body, it would receive whatever needed input immediately from some prepared deposit ready to release by pump into the brain pending signaled need, and the output could be analyzed by another sensor to determine when the brain is sufficienty prepared to be severed and further cooled.

Remember, because the vitrification solution needn’t be dispersed throughout the ENTIRE body as means to achieving the desired density of solution in the perfused bloodstream, it should be much quicker to do so only for the brain. This is the idea in choosing the neuros over whole-body preservation and of course is already in effect through Alcor, but not so quickly. So much more quick of a neuros procedure could render null the need for a lot of what we would put into the bloodstream to keep the brain happy and perfusion of vitrification solution feasible, so I’m thinking it might be possible to simply administer a relatively brief amount of oxygenated blood and anaethesia to put the person to sleep and at ease, and then directly administer neurovitrification. It shouldn’t take too long I would think, intuitively, since again, the volume to be perfused is comparatively small.

Cooling to the initial stage (I think this was something like 2-degrees Celcius?) might be done by the following means. Say we are wearing a helmet, and its shell is hollow. To the bottom of the hollow shell encapsulating the skull we attach an insulated tube through its open hole, which powered by a pump can push up whatever fluid into the hollow basin, the air within pulled out by a vacuum, which would pull the air out through a perferated sheath around the outside all along the surface there so that it would not matter which direction was up (as if the person fell down and up was not up anymore ha); or else maybe the hole for the vacuum would rise up with the air in like fashion. Anyhow, you would have to have attached to you some cooling liquid you could pump into this shell, ah, or you could have on you two packs of liquid, which only turn cold when in reaction to one another, an endothermic reaction that would take place in this helmet.

The helmet also could be equipped with, dare I say something so morbid, a means to automated decapitation. After the output sensor perceives the brain is properly vitrificated, it could signal for the tying off (another pre-installed mechanism) of both the input and output blood-carriers to/from the brain, and after a time-period based on anticipated time required by tying, also signal the helment to sever the head by the neck below the tie-off point, sealing the bottom so that the head is now completely encased within this surrounding orb. Internal GPS could be activated and the professionals at Alcor could come post-haste to retrieve the sphere. Before hand the person will have already cryopreserved small samples of their tissue of all kinds (muscle, skin, hair, whatever) for stem cell harvesting and piecing together by nanotechnology when the time comes for them to be revived; sperm and ovaries can also be cryopreserved for the making of children later if a biological body isn’t an immediate option, depending on whatever arrangements are made for revival (if it’s determined the desired biological revival isn’t possible, the bionic may well become the viable alternative, perhaps requiring alternative means of making children assuming it’s allowed).

Anyway that’s a rough idea of my idea. Please take it appart and judge and alter and perfect as you like. I’d wait another ten years to figure out how to patent this but if it’s really as good an idea as I think it could be it would be wrong of me to wait, and I’d rather eveyone knew so it could be more easily, and quickly perfected.

Gah, 8 minutes until CHEM 1A! Sorry have to run. Take care guys (and gals). Glad to be part of the community.


Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:49 pm    Post subject:

A good idea on paper, but has way too many practical problems in reality.

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Viability

No doubt, there are a lot of logistical demands to such a proposition, which make it logistically impractical, but not infeasible. How far a person is willing to go to ensure he or she is saved when the time comes will determine to what extreme s/he would alter its standard of normalcy. Personally, I’d rather roll around in a wheelchair than walk around with the kind of risk entailed in going by the normal procedure, assuming I had that option. This method allows just that. It would be pretty difficult to prepare and build, somewhat inconvenient to live with, but it could be done and would lend almost 100% assurance of resuscitability, in so far as it eliminates the factor of warm ischemia. May be worth the trouble.

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:41 am    Post subject:

Personally, i’d rather go with the normal standby – this would require too many changes to my body and way too many chances for serious injury.

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 11:56 am    Post subject:

What’s being discussed here is essentially an automatic emergency backup system for the heart. There are market incentives for such systems beyond just cryonics. Unfortunately medical technology is still far too primitive for such a thing to be practical.

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:17 pm    Post subject:

Automated decapitation and neuro vitrification is a bit more complex.

Neural Archaeology


In another Thread, Brian Wowk pointed people to a 1987 Cryonics Magazine article by Thomas Donaldson called “Neural Archaeology.”

(I note in typing this that Thomas used the older spelling with “ae” while our Web master used the more common modern spelling.)

I have not read that article in the 19 years since it was written; but I was startled with how relevant it still is. Good for Donaldson and good that we can still read articles like this via the Internet. Please read this; it is a great reality check for cryonicists.

In brief, Donaldson’s thesis was that we will never be able to prove that “cryonics” will work. Because “cryonics” implies that we are preserving people without knowing that we will be able to revive them as themselves. If we already knew that this procedure would work for some people, that would be suspended animation. Some people may be revived, but there will always be people still in suspension with various levels of brain damage from disease, injury, ischemia, imperfect preservation, etc. And we will continue to suspend people in situations where we cannot know if they will be repairable. In his opinion, there will always be “cryonics”, no matter how good the technology becomes.

Right now, we have very few clues about what happens in the brain during disease, injury, ischemia, and cryopreservation. Even though we know more today than we did in 1987, it is probably still less than 1% of what we will eventually need to know. The need for research in “neural archaeology” (inferring the original state from the debris left over) is still as pressing as ever before. As Donaldson says, only cryonicists are likely to be interested in pursuing such research for a long time.

In a later article (I’m still searching for it), Donaldson pointed out that science’s increasing knowledge of brain function suggests that the essentials of memory and personality might be confined to a relatively small volume of the brain. Most of the brain, he theorized, could replaced with regrown tissue without changing the identity of the patient. If so, that decreases the difficulty by 1000% — leaving a difficulty level of only a few million percent greater than we have today. (He was being ironic, I think.)

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:51 pm    Post subject:

I must admit that I am rather surprised that there have been no extensive studies of brain tissue following ischemia before. This is something that could have applications in mainstream medicine if it was properly studied. There must surely be a way to observe changes in ischemic brain tissue at different intervals without the need to use whole brains and prep them for the microscope. What I am proposing is some way of using a culture of neurons in a petri dish or similar and automatically taking snapshots or manually observing over time. This should help visually show changes over time and allow us to begin analysing the damage.

Posted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:11 pm    Post subject:

I am no scientist; but it seems to me that it would be exceedingly difficult to observe neurons in a petrie dish in a any useful way. And understanding how memories are preserved and destroyed in a living system would require something much more extensive. I hope Brian can elaborate.

Posted: Tue Sep 19, 2006 6:15 am    Post subject:

It would be pretty much impossible to observe co-ordinated activity the same as in a living active brain in a petri dish but general changes at the celluar level could be observed, and the state of dendrites (regardless of whether or not those dendrites are storing any meaningful information).

If the dendrites are completely destroyed by x period of time in the petri dish then it would be sensible to assume the same thing happens in an actual brain.

Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:33 pm    Post subject:

Would all the advances in noninvasive brain imaging in the past 20 years help to promote understanding of neural archeology? And which ones, specifically, would provide the most useful information?

Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:45 am    Post subject:

The problem is not lack of technology, invasive or non-invasive. The problem is that cryonicists are the only people that find the question of brain deterioration following hours of cardiac arrest interesting and important.

SA INC– Is anyone here getting an email news from SA Inc?


Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:16 pm    Post subject: SA INC– Is anyone here getting an email news from SA Inc?

I can’t determine if SA Inc is putting out an email news or not. Is anyone here getting any email news output from them?

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:04 am    Post subject: Update– There is no SA email news right now.

CPlatt has finally responded to the question as to whether there is an email news or not— but it wasn’t a “polite” response. Essentially what’s happening is that SA Inc is accepting email news requests for when and IF they decide to publish an email news. At this time, they are not doing so. They discontinued their monthly bulletin early in 2005. That’s a wrap on for now.

I note that 26 people visited this post– and NOBODY KNEW the answer! I mean– for cryonicists, we’re not a very “curious” bunch really are we? Except maybe me. And apparently I’m “curious” in more than one way– as in “oddball”. Oh well.

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: Update– There is no SA email news right now.

I would expect that someone who went to the CI annual meeting has an SA update– including an update on their news output. Does anyone know of any alcor member who went– who we could ask?

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:11 am    Post subject:

I will bite. What is SA Inc?

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:39 am    Post subject:

Suspended Animation, Inc.

Human instinct survival?


I stand to be corrected on this but I beleive that the strongest instict

in man is self preservtion followed by survival of the species.

Sex is the vehicle in which species survival is secured.

Now assuming that Cryonics one day is successful and that humans need

never die, will the instinct for species survival become redundant as

the human race would automatically survive without any struggle in this

new world of immortality?

It may then follow on from this that the sex drive eventually fades with it too!

A future life without sex may not appeal to many!

But no doubt, medicine at that time will still be able to ensure that we enjoy going to bed by taking our pills!! :

Not so much a ‘morning after’ pill but a ‘night before’ pill!!

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject:

I recommend reading Charles Stross’ Accelerando.

Once you are an entirely digitized entity, you could alter your

volitions at will. I suspect some of us will want to create variant

branches of ourselves that could take different roles in life. Some

would be sent out to explore the universe. Some would be responsible for

the care of others, and some would have no other purpose in life than

pure hedonistic abandon

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:06 am Post subject:

lunarsolarpower – you are now getting into the transhumanist idea of “uploading” which has one major flaw:

Which one of the copies is the real you? If they’re all you then do you perceive things from all of their perspectives at once?

If you could scan your brain and upload it all into a supercomputer

running a neural net simulation right now and done so but I pulled out a

gun and pointed it at you would you care about me pulling the trigger?

A copy of you is not you and until we can figure out what creates

subjective awareness and actually transfer that to another medium

uploading as a means of personal survival is pure fantasy.

With regards to sex drive – I would argue that sex has over the past few

decades become more and more a recreational rather than a reproductive

thing. If sex becomes obsolete at some point then something else which

satisfies a great need will replace it. Currently sex is one of our

greatest drives because the species needs to reproduce. But another need

will replace it and become equally satisfying, and when that happens we

will not care. Perhaps eating or taking anti-aging pills (personal

survival) will become the new sex. Maybe we’ll all have to cover up our

food and medical equipment to prevent offending others!

You’re not dead till you’re warm and dead

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:43 am Post subject:

When I discuss the possibilities of any future revival with Cryonics I

am careful not to mix up the possiblities with science fiction.

Sci fi can conjure up anything but real life is another thing

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject:

Well if you want to postulate a strictly biological reanimation scenario, then I suspect that very few people would want to give up the benefits derived from their sex drive. That is unless someone developed a superior system of course.

That’s why I liked Accelerando is because he did explore how society could deal with multiple copies of an individual. For example, if two separate copies had each been living their own life for 30 years and they both arrived at the same location, they could simply spend a period of time assimilating the experiences of each other and coalesce into a single person once again.

Also, with regard to your brain scan/murder scenario, of course I would not want to be shot. However if nanomolecular dendrites slowly infiltrated my brain and gradually my consciousness grew to stem more from the digital than the biological until “I” had left the flesh, then by all means dispose of the body. This of course is seriously far-out science fiction, but it doesn’t seem beyond some form of possibility given what we know of our universe and consciousness.

I see now that I did not understand the sense in which Animation was asking the question.

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 10:28 am    Post subject:

I think that the certainty with which you make these statements is unwarranted. These are philosophical questions about our subjective definitions of “self”, and the conclusions that you reach regarding yourself, while absolutely valid, are not universal.

A year ago I would have agreed with you, but today I now personally think that the question of which member of a set of identical duplicates (at least identical at the time of duplication) is spurious. I see it as equivalent to asking whether the copy of FireFox running on my laptop is “more real” than the copy on my desktop computer. They’re all equally valid.

Would I be bothered if, after successfully uploading me, you pointed a gun at my head? Of course! You’re endangering me! Likewise, if you threatened to delete a conscious digital upload of me I’d take issue just as vigorously for the exact same reason.

I don’t think that the existence of multiple iterations of me devalues “me”. However, I will concede that the loss of a single instance of me is much less of a tragedy if other instances persist, if only because less of the pattern that defines me is permanently lost.

This issue is similar to the question of whether or not uploading is desirable if the process is destructive to the original. I admit that I am more comfortable with the idea of being uploaded through gradual augmentation, with unbroken continuity of thought as I transition from meat to a synthetic form, but this preference isn’t rational. Call it “vestigial organic bias” if you will.

Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject:

From the view point of species, sex is a tool not only for reproduction, but also for the improvement of species’s adaptability(by chaging genes to make new individuals).

Even though human has developed the so-called civilization and the focus of evolution has moved from genes to intelligence(ex:experience, personality, knowldge, …etc.), the basic concept or working principle of evolution will not change. That means…

[1] No matter what kind of mudium will be used to contain your mind(the basic unit of evolution), the construction of container will waste our usable resource gotten from universe.

[2] No matter how advance we are, in the future, we still have to improve, change, or tune our species to adapt the universe.

[3] According to [1], you are not allow to copy yourself too much, because you have to share the disk space with other evolution unit.

[4] According to [2], mutation is necessary. Thus new members are still required.

[5] According to [3] and [4], the best way to generate new executable units will be making new units by referring to multiple well-performed units.

I don’t know how will we call step [5] in the future, but nowadays we call it SEX.

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:32 am    Post subject: Change the universe to suit humans– vs. changing humans.

You forgot about changing the universe. And by God, we can do that if we really put our minds to it right now. I’ll start.

Just a reminder to the reductionist cryo faction– man is not a machine. And a machine can’t be a man. Life begets life. Human Cognition begets Human Cognition. Man is more than an animal. It’s okay and scientific to view the cognitive phase space as occupied by God– that doesn’t detract from the cryonics mission. Transhumanism isn’t the only cryonics contextual philosophy– Transuniversalism– changing the universe is a viable counter strategy that’s a LOT nicer, friendly and in tune with Natural Law. Blah blah blah.

I’m the only cryo in the world who thinks this way that I know of, but if what I say resonates with you, let me know. Especially the girls– because like that guy said– sex is a pretty important element in the universe and we ought to do something to enable that on a higher level. On THAT much, we agree.

Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject:

Personally I view conciousness as something metaphysical with roots in the physical world. We cannot as of yet trace the path from “these neurons here fire” to “concious entity feels this emotion”. The subjective awareness is generated somewhere in the brain, but we don’t know where. I do not believe in some kind of immortal soul or any of that other kind of spiritual nonsense but I do believe that conciousness itself is not purely physical and this is why I insist that my original brain must be repaired with the original matter if possible in order to ensure as much as possible that it’ll be the same conciousness that wakes up as me. I do not actually know in the philosophical sense if my current conciousness is the same as it was yesterday or if the current Gareth is a different entity that just happens to have the same physical brain and body.

Life After Cryogenics


On this website you can find out so much interesting information about a subject that has captured the attention of many individuals and professionals for along the time. The thought of immortality and cryogenics is something that people find fascinating and which could even be achieved in the future. Here you will read more about how physicians get involved in this science area but on this particular page we would like to propose a rather daring exercise. Let’s suppose that a cryogenics succeeds and an individual would actually become immortal for at least some decades.

Here are some aspects of his life that are worth thinking about. Honestly, it would be great to be there for the entire life of one’s children and to get to even be around and see your grandchildren get married and have their own life built from scratch. Not many people get to do this and this is why some really love the idea of immortality. A cryonics patient may be frozen and stored for decades, but what happens when he wakes up?

If we like to think about cryogenics like a way of keeping ourselves around for longer periods of time than our human condition would normally allow us, then we should also think about how to start over when we come back to life

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